Beloved Futures
“the ultimate, hidden truth of the world is that it is something that we make, and could just as easily make differently.”
~ David Graeber
The world is changing all around us. I know in my bones that, contrary to the evening news, a new and more beautiful way of human-ing on the planet is being birthed. One that is in right relation with Earth (Gaia), embracing the truth of Inter-being. The Beloved Futures podcast is a space of soul nourishment where we explore what is going right with the world and give space to the Beloved Futures emerging in our midst.
When we can collectively imagine multidimensional futures that we wish to live in, we will make the choices in the present that steer us there with more ease and grace.
Imagination is the mostpowerful force available to humankind.
Together we imagine new worlds into being. Radical (to the root) modes of relating with the world, remembering how to live with earth as the sentient being that she is.
Each episode, I connect with individuals and collectives whoare actively engaged withand devoted tocatalyzingbelovedfutures. What do these futureslook like, taste like, smell like, feel liketo them? What propels their work and dedication to radical imaginings?Together we explore what brings them energy and hope, the twists and turns of their life and learningand how their workin the world adds to the collective experience of thriving and joy.
These conversations with artists, healers, teachers, creators, storytellers, farmers, spiritual leaders, mothers and others on the frontlines of the imagination revolution are aimed at supporting all of us as werise into our creative potential as human BE-comings.
Each one of us is a vessel for thelife forceof Loveto flow into material experience and each one of us has an invaluable gift to share. When we focus our energies on the Beloved Futures, we collectively produce an energetic in the now that makes the seemingly impossible, possible. The time is now, there is no other moment than the present. Together we are a force. And so it is...
Beloved Futures
S2 E9 | Pat McCabe –The Holy Alchemical Spirit of the Money
You've never heard money described quite like this before. In this profound conversation, Pat McCabe (Woman Stands Shining) introduces us to the "holy alchemical spirit of the money" - a vision that reimagines our relationship with currency, value, and exchange. With extraordinary clarity and wisdom, Pat reveals how our economic systems have created damaging barriers between Mother Earth's natural abundance and all her children.
Drawing from Indigenous wisdom traditions, Pat explains the concept of "omnibeneficence" - living in a way that creates benefit and blessing for all life. She speaks eloquently about how every being on the medicine wheel has its unique and sovereign role in upholding the integrity of the whole. When humans interfere with this natural order through extraction, hoarding, and damming resources, we ultimately undermine our own existence.
The conversation takes us on a journey through Pat's personal relationship with money, from feeling constrained by financial scarcity to witnessing extraordinary manifestations when following Spirit's guidance. She shares the powerful story of acquiring 141 acres at the base of a sacred mountain for the Diné people and her vision for "Joy House, the School for Unlearning" - a place dedicated to unlearning death ways and relearning life ways.
Perhaps most moving is Pat's sharing of buffalo wisdom: when storms come, buffalo stand together facing the challenge, collectively holding each other up. In these tumultuous times, she reminds us that our survival depends on maintaining "fearless generosity and a soft heart." This conversation offers not just a critique of capitalism, but a visionary pathway toward healing our relationship with Earth and each other.
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Website: www.ourbelovedfutures.com/
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Welcome, Beloveds, to the Beloved Futures podcast, where we dream the Beloved Futures into being together. I hold an incredible optimism about this time on planet Earth and, despite the grief I feel at watching the dying parts and understanding what must be lost before the new can be born, it seems to me that we sit on the precipice of something incredible be lost before the new can be born. It seems to me that we sit on the precipice of something incredible. Join me as we speak to people who are holding space for that new emergence to occur, who hold the same optimism in their hearts and, despite the odds, work towards creating the beloved futures that we all know are possible. I hope you enjoy our time together. Thank you for being here. Above all, I love you.
Speaker 2:How are you like a tarotist that gives you homework. I love it. And so she. One time she said so I want you to go to some beautiful place in nature that you really love, and I want you to get quiet. And then I want you to go into your heart. And she said and for you, I want you to open the secret back door of your heart and just ask what is it that you really want? And then, whatever it says, you say yes. And so I've only done it twice, because it's very, very powerful. It'll rearrange your life if you're not in complete, honest, total alignment with your own heart, which most of us don't, and it's hard to maintain modern world paradigm and that so that's.
Speaker 1:I should do it again, though. Yeah, that's a beautiful invitation actually. Pat McCabe, it is a gift and honor to be here with you today. I'm so grateful for your time, your energy and your presence and um just care deeply about you and your work and so honored to have gotten to know you recently more deeply. I've been following you for a while and your daughter, lila june, and the incredible work you're both doing in the world. So thank you for a while, and your daughter, lila June, and the incredible work you're both doing in the world. So thank you for gracing us today. I'd love to open us with a prayer, if you'd like to share groundings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, aubrey, thank you very much. And so this is prayer, but this is also dedication of this time we're sharing here right now, two or more are gathered, so you know what they say. So, yeah, and I also want to just acknowledge all this life that's, you know, in this northern part of the hemisphere, this big exhale of life of our Mother Earth, just so green outside my window here and things are beginning to show their fruit, and just so grateful for that rhythm, and just want to acknowledge you, holy Mother Earth, and your incredible big rhythms that stay with us through all of our antics and through all of everything that you have to teach us. So I invite you to be in this conversation, invite you to witness that, aubrey and myself, we're here to discuss some of the human matters and some of the heart matters, some of the earth matters, some of the holy alchemical spirit, of the money. So, yeah, so I call upon all, call upon you spirit, great mystery, call upon you all the life around us, the flying ones, swimming ones, creepy crawling ones, four-legged ones, stone people, standing nation, the trees, all the green nation again, and thinking about our relatives in the southern hemisphere also, as they're, they've kind of got. You know, they've probably come to their peak too, and or they're approaching their peak and they're going to start feeling that movement towards. You know that it's kind of an inhale going on of life down there.
Speaker 2:So, just aware of how all our relations are taking part in this movement of this powerful, beautiful, creative, ever-evolving, ever-adaptive Mother Earth, and so, yeah, I just ask for your guidance and direction, holy Grandmothers and Holy Grandfathers, for this conversation, guide and direct us, and we make a space for you in here. So, you know, let me be your mouth and Aubrey too, for whatever you know needs to be said, and just send this to the exact right place at the right time for whoever needs to hear. You know what, all of us, this whole community of life in the spirit, world, cosmos, center of the earth, whatever we have to say here, it's for all of us, and I'm listening too. So it's for all of us and I'm listening too. So thank you for all my relations.
Speaker 1:Thank you, pat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just that idea of the exhale and I'm looking at the stone beings outside my window here Donner Lake, truckee area, and they're just so profound in their wisdom and their different understanding of time, right, thinking about this idea of the holy alchemical spirit of the money and the blessing and privilege I had to be with you at that space in Commonweal as we sort of sat with that question of money and capital and philanthropy and what is money and what is being asked of us right now, and rethinking philanthropy and rethinking, you know, post-capitalist futures and post-capitalist philanthropy and all of those things.
Speaker 1:And when you brought that idea of the holy alchemical spirit of the money, you know, to me it's in a way that kind of the stone beings ask us to slow down, you know, and rethink, like what is this thing money that pushes us forward and faster and more and consume, and to thing money that pushes us forward and faster and more and consume and to, like, you know, to eat more, more things, and that actually money may want something very different from us. And I know you've had a an evolving relationship or relationality with money. If you'd be willing to share that story and how that has come through for you and shifted in your life. I think that would be a beautiful offering to those who are listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. A lot was going through my mind just now while you were speaking. That happens sometimes, things just flitter Images. So I'm going to start with those first before they fade. So Holy, alchemical, spirit of the Money this is what I was told as I was sitting at my altar is the name that I could give to money. And so why alchemical? Why alchemical? And that's because she can.
Speaker 2:At this point we say she can become pretty much anything, um, or you know, we it's. It's a fine line for us to think that she can be anything, but she's actually representing things, right, um, but she can be present to bring forth um, so many things she can bring forth. You know the fact that I get to have, you know, this phone, um, but she can also bring forth um. Sometimes we try to make her bring forth love, intimacy. I mean, you know we're like, you know we're trying to ride that way, but so that's what I think. That's how I hear that when they say alchemical. But when you were talking, that alchemical piece was really alive, because so I often talk about receiving outrageous proposals from spirit.
Speaker 2:And they really stretch me. You know oh yes, human logic, that I've been raised with right and step into spirit logic and spirit logic is radically different, you know, and so you know for spirit to say hey, you know, daughter, if this were to happen this is always the way spirit does it, because spirit knows I'm a sucker for this If this were to happen, you know, a great possibility for healing could arise.
Speaker 1:So I'm just saying, you know, and then I could arise.
Speaker 2:so I'm just saying, just saying you know, and then I so I'm thinking about like wow, how would we do that or what you know? And and almost always lately it's changed, though like very recently, but lately it's changed but I always say to my always say the spirit gosh, that sounds like a lot of money, you know, that sounds like two million dollars or that sounds like twenty five thousand dollars or that sounds like you know, or whatever it is. And so we used to have these long Spirit used to take me through these long, you know gentle processes of you know gently leading me through. Well, what kind of belief would you have to have in order to feel like that's so overwhelming? And what do you think you know? And now there's none of that going on. Now the Spirit says irrelevant, yes, irrelevant. Like that's all I get.
Speaker 2:Now it's like we've already been through this, like let's move on. You know that's a really big moment and movement, because what that's saying is it's time to stop. Even though there's going to be money involved that's not actually what's happening here it's time to put that money barrier that you guys like to place in front of everything around, all your relationships and agreements and stuff, um, uh, but you and I, daughter, we can just like move, we're just gonna move. And what if it takes money? Great, no problem, it'll show if it takes people, it'll show if it takes um, whatever. Whatever it's going to take to create this movement, this opportunity for a consciousness shift, healing beauty, you know, whatever spirit has in mind some, some, some amazing, gorgeous thing, always right and um.
Speaker 2:and so it's kind of like, why are you even worried about about the, the journey from point a and it's not linear, but I'll say from point a to point b, it could be point a, b you know, but, um, and so you know when, when you were speaking of that, of the money, you know, uh, all those things, I can't even think of it because I was already kind of like drifting off, but but you were talking about all the, the way we make it obstacles, the way we put it in there, the way we want to pretend that it's actually this water, when it can never be this water. Yeah, yeah, we put it in front of the water and say, you, over there, you may have some water, and say you, over there, you may have some water. If you give me access to this money, or if you give me to this thing that we can agree upon that, I can then take and make another agreement and another agreement and another agreement. Right, then I may allow you to have this, which, by the way, that very particular example. I feel like that's a huge spiritual violation, totally, totally, as because, in my understanding, um, nobody is to get in the way of what the mother earth would give to her child.
Speaker 2:Amen, that's, nobody has business in that zone, you know, um, so the mother earth wants to give us water. Then we all get water. You know Earth, you know all of her fruiting and flowering. You know, now we sometimes get to have a place in cooperation and collaboration with her, and this is what my daughter Lila, to give to her children, and that's not just for one species, ever so when she talks about you know, that the indigenous peoples, or human beings, had a role in planting the entire hardwood forest in, say, the southeast, or even, you know and this I didn't know this until she was telling me about it you know there was the cultivation of the rainforest in South America. Yeah, the earth, totally. I mean, think about that for a minute, right.
Speaker 1:Totally. It's amazing what's coming out of that.
Speaker 2:So when we have the right mindset, a relational mindset, then we can play a role with the Mother Earth to take care of all the children. That's going to make me cry and that's actually what I've been calling. You know, I coined this word omnibeneficent To be omnibeneficent, to be omnibeneficent, participate in omnibeneficence. So that's to participate in being a benefit and blessing to all. So that was the deep science I feel like of you know, all these different groups of human beings all over the planet that we often call indigenous. I mean the whole term indigenous is talking about them being of place right and the depth of the relationship to place. So, looking at this law of honoring that the Mother Earth gets to give whatever she wants to whoever she wants, I mean think about your own mama, right? Are you going to get in the way?
Speaker 1:of that. No, watch out, that's a really bad idea.
Speaker 2:This is like no mama you know, so you know. But to be able to participate in helping mama gift life, that's a high endeavor.
Speaker 1:That's high tech, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's high tech. Yeah, that's high tech, absolutely. Because in order to really participate in that, in order to really participate in omnibeneficence, you have to take into consideration the sovereignty of all the life. Every. So, here we'll take out my little prop here now. The sacred medicine wheel. Ah, beautiful. And this one is in the colors of the Lakota tradition, but different peoples have different colors for different directions and different expressions of this. But I received vision about this one in my people's home in Canyon de Chelly. It was actually floating above the canyon like this oh, you found it no it was a vision, oh, a vision of it, I see.
Speaker 2:Yeah and so, but it led me to this way of working with this and looking at this, in that I say every single life form was given a seat on this sacred hoop and even the human beings.
Speaker 2:So that's a big deal. I think that we just like, of course, of course we get to be here. Yeah, it's like to me we were given an honor of sitting with all of our relations on this sacred hoop and to participate on this mother earth and to be given an opportunity to find our kind's particular way of participating in omnibeneficence. So all of our relations who are on here, like, if I look outside, I got this huge apricot tree here there's magpies hopping around because they're getting excited that the grapes are finally growing leaves and stuff, because they know what's coming.
Speaker 2:So let's take magpie, for instance. So magpie lives in such a way that magpie not only takes care of his own kind, her own kind, which magpie is really good at, but magpie's presence also causes whole other groups of families to thrive, and then those families cause other ones to thrive, and then that those families cause other ones to thrive, and so on and so forth. So science might say ecosystem supports, ecosystem supports ecosystem, and you move as you move into different climates and etc. Um, but so in that sense, that's why I'm saying magpie is omnibeneficent. Magpie's way of being is a benefit and blessing to all. So you got to love magpie, right, but also apricot tree same way. You know, here's a little buddy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the jaguar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jaguar, jaguar's presence creates benefit and blessing to life, not only in the jungle, but really we can say, as ecosystem touches ecosystem touches ecosystem throughout this whole life, throughout the whole Mother Earth, right? So this is what I'm talking about omnibeneficence.
Speaker 1:Will you share a little bit about the hoop for those who can't see it, the colors and what it represents, about omnibeneficence.
Speaker 2:Will you share a little bit about the hoop for those who can't see it, the colors and what it represents? Yeah, so oftentimes we say that different medicines lie in different directions. In this Lakota configuration, the black stands for west, red is north, yellow is east, white is south. Then there's the center, and then you can also look at it this way, so's a vertical aspect as well, above and below and then at the center. So we say, at the center there's a lot going on. At that center it's, I guess it's sort of like maybe in eastern traditions, um, there's, I'm gonna forget the word, but it kind of means nothingness, which is actually pure potential. Yeah, and so in the Lakota way, sometimes we talk about the great mystery Nothing and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also, when I'm calling out in ceremony to the directions and I call to that center direction, I'm calling out to something that sometimes we refer to as wawakon, calling out to something that sometimes we refer to as wuwakon. So wuwakon is an energetic or an entity or a spirit that only does what creator tells it to do. It defies any logics besides creator's will. It has no concept of time moving one direction, it doesn't know anything about terminal, it doesn't know about gravity, it doesn't know about age, it doesn't know it, just it. Just. If creator says I need you to go do this, that's what happens. So we, we, I anyway honor that space in the center very much, because I feel like I'm operating a lot out of that spirit logic place, right, and that's coming from right there. So I guess my point here is there's a lot of points I'm making here at once, but anyway, you know so to participate in cooperation and collaboration here.
Speaker 2:So if any member of this sacred hoop of life is not allowed to fulfill, you know, so I say every member has to uphold its part of this hoop or the integrity begins to fail. You can look at it like an engineering situation, right, every member has to hold up their part or the integrity of the hoop begins to fail. Every member has to hold up their part or the integrity of the hoop begins to fail, which is sort of what we're seeing. And so every member has been given a special way to uphold its part. So magpie's way is different than platypus's way, is different than seahorse's way, is different than jaguar's way, is different than human being's way, is different than jaguar's way. You know, is different than human beings way. But all of us put together is what creates the, the deep integrity of thriving life way, right and so, um, that's powerful.
Speaker 2:But then the other part of that equation, then, is every, every member. However they're going to enact their way of upholding their part of the sacred hoop. It can't interfere with anybody else's. So, in other words, I have to allow the sovereignty of every being to enact its way, to be able to make its contribution so that the integrity of the structure of life can be at its fullest. So I always say what a spiritual setup. We've been given free will, we can do whatever we want to do. I mean, look around, we're doing it.
Speaker 1:We're pushing the bounds for sure.
Speaker 2:However, if we just use that free will in such a way where we're not paying attention to what it's doing to all the other members here, then we end up not only cutting things out from under them, but eventually we cut the limb out from under our own bottom, as it were. So you see what the setup is that way. So, when I think about the human beings that have participated in helping the mother earth gift everything, I always say mother earth gives us everything we need to take care of everyone we love. Yeah, but not only us. Magpie 2, buffalo 2, eagle 2 you know everybody, um, and so to be able to participate, you know, in helping your mom, be able to give exactly what's needed to all of your brothers and sisters and your relatives, that's a big deal, that's a high honor, right? So, going back to some of the things you said at the beginning about the use of money, um, so I think money could participate here, but it's not right. Not right not being used that way right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's being used, so it's actually extracting from the capacities of all of the members of the sacred hoop. I would say, yeah, right. And so one way that I've described that is. I've said that you know it's being. It's extracted out of the bodies of the flying ones, swimming ones, creepy crawling ones, four-legged ones, standing nation. It's being extracted out of the bodies of the men, the women, the children. It's being extracted out of psyches and souls and it's being hoarded and damned. The other thing this looks stationary, but it's not. It's in constant motion. This is in constant motion.
Speaker 1:I can see it like whirling, almost like a glow. Yeah, yeah, so you got to picture it like really like moving, spinning.
Speaker 2:So so we, so in lakota, they, they, they talk about that taco and that's um, that sacred movement. That's in all things right. So to so anytime, we damn dams are antithetical to what's happening.
Speaker 1:Yes, the opposite of movement and flow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so to dam what's been extracted out of the life is problematic, right, and so what I've been saying is those dams have to be let down. Life is screaming out for life now, and so all that has been extracted from the life again. Think about how powerful that is, though, that this concept of money.
Speaker 1:Let's see what I do A piece of paper with some numbers and letters and a picture.
Speaker 2:And the numbers and letters and pictures.
Speaker 1:We chose my god. A hundred percent, yeah, represent the symbology absolutely so so this somehow has.
Speaker 2:This is the magic involved here. This is also the power of the human imagination. This is the power of the participation of human co-creation of reality.
Speaker 1:Yes, the trust required to make that shared agreement collectively across the planet.
Speaker 2:So this doesn't mean anything really, except for what we decide. But it has become so powerful that it can mean the extraction of life out of life, you know, and so I always want to pay attention to that for a minute. This is how powerful we can be. The question is, in what direction do we want to be powerful in? Yes, right, so you know, place them together, not before, but let's just look at that for a second.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, so to keep that motion going, this, this money, this holy alchemical spirit of the money. So we, we made it alchemical alchemical enough to to be able to touch everything, but not so alchemical in that we impose rules on it, which is that we're going to create systems such that not everybody gets to partake of the life that has been extracted. So we've put this layer of barrier between that law of the Mother Earth gets to give exactly what she wants to every single child, but we put this barrier in the middle there, right, and we're going to make systems such that not everybody gets to have access to the life that was extracted, that was meant for them and that was meant for the participation of all the life there to be able to enact its omnibeneficence. So this is problematic, right? So I don't know.
Speaker 1:I have never talked about money this way before, so that's that prayer yeah, so beautiful that the omni-beneficence piece and I'm just thinking about the dam metaphor and how like even the damming is to extract the life force of the water's energy right for human use and that when we're damming the omni-beneficence, the sort of rottenness that comes through that and like the decay that happens because things aren't moving in the way that the hoop wants them to and naturally does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and let's notice how resolute and determined our salmon relatives have been. Oh my God, that climate, of climate, river, like they just, even though, even though they just, they have not given it up, they're like we will travel up that river and I will somehow make it over that dam.
Speaker 2:And I mean that just blows. I mean that breaks my heart and blows my mind and blows my heart open to think about the salmon people, how powerful they are. So I encourage all of us who are interested in the reimagining of money and the protecting of the sacred which is my foundation for working with this one and speaking about this one but I want us to notice what's happening. What's going to happen with the Klamath removal yes, how fast, how fast it's shifted already, but I want us to notice what's happening.
Speaker 1:What's going to happen with the Klamath removal how fast, how fast it's shifted already.
Speaker 2:Because I think we want to, we like to think that everybody's in their own little lane, their little category. So that's because we're so intellectually, we're trained to be so intellectually based, and that's what this one loves to do. It likes to categorize, it likes to to do. It likes to categorize, yeah, it likes to problem solve, it likes to create problems to solve.
Speaker 2:It likes to create chaos to fix all of it, yeah, it likes to make to fix up and clean, yeah, and so I just encourage us to watch. I mean, I think it's going to be well, it already is, I think. But when they reintroduced the wolves into Yellowstone, it changed the course of rivers. Like why would, how could, wool change the course of rivers, you know? So who knows what is going to appear with the salmon and and all the life being able to be free again, um, so we've got to watch what's happening here with that, with that, with that movement being allowed again, um, and there's, there's logics, yeah, again, logics that we cannot know.
Speaker 2:Yes, we can't know that will you share a little bit about the klamath river journey, because some listening may not know about it yet um, I don't know a whole lot about it, honestly, but I know that my indigenous relatives have been working on and wanting to see the Klamath Dam removed For decades. It's a very big dam, right, and it's hydroelectric, correct, yeah.
Speaker 1:So again, like harnessing the energy of the water for human use, damming up the rivers, the salmon can't freely spawn, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so they just took it down, and so I'm watching.
Speaker 1:I'm watching.
Speaker 2:You know, and I'm a little bit more familiar with my Winnememwintu relatives and the way that they have been having to negotiate with the Shasta Dam and stand side by side with the salmon people. You know the salmon people have not given up, and so the Winnemem Wintu people are saying, you know, we can never give up, the salmon people aren't giving up. And there are relatives in a very particular way, and so you know so, chief Kayleen Sisk is a person that I know, but I know there's other leaders involved. But suddenly these barriers in relationship have. You know. So I'll just say this really quick here for this Think about how interrelated this is speaking to Interrelated, interconnected, interdependent, thich Nhat. Hanh calls us interbeing, yes, single organism actually. Interrelated, interconnected, interdependent. Teak not han calls us interbeing, yes, single organism actually. And so, um, relationship is the name of the game here. In fact, you cannot, you can pretend to get around it, or that you don't have to participate, or that what you do does not affect the whole, but I mean, that's kind of terrifying actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, that's the forgetting that has gotten us to where we are right, absolutely yeah, yeah, so, so to have, like the, the government agencies, finally be able and willing to consult with the winnaman winter and and chief kayleen you brought them into ceremony, you know, and they might not have understood everything that was going on there, but they were willing to show up for it. And now they're consulting with the Winamum Wintu about creating the salmon ladders and you know, who knows what's going to happen with that Shasta Dam. But now there's all different of this language, right? Stakeholders? Yeah, so sterile, but now there's all different of this language right stakeholders yeah.
Speaker 1:So sterile Stakeholders in life People yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:We all have a stake in wanting to live and live our way. So, yes, stakeholders coming together to. So I'm just noticing that I'm always watching for the places where people who have not historically or recently well, I don't know since those agencies were created, if they've ever really been in relationship with indigenous peoples no, their creation was started.
Speaker 1:We are. They're starting to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, also starting to ask you know, so what is all this about? Controlled burning and you know, and so that's a ceremonial relationship as well. I mean the way that one way to look at ceremony is it's, it's um, it's kind of like, well, it's, it's uh, it's a relationship making way with beyond the human, sometimes the spirit, but sometimes with the animals and the land. They're all included, but sometimes you're really focused in a particular way. So I don't know, I want to say you know, because I've been a little bit adverse to that term, sustainability, I'm like, if that's all we can aspire to, exactly feels a little short. Sustainable, okay, instead of this riotous thriving life possibility, totally, um, I'm like, no, I'm talking mad love affair, exactly blooms everywhere radical abundance.
Speaker 1:You call it fearless generosity. I love that.
Speaker 2:That's right fearless generosity, radical abundance, that's the way of this other earth. So there again, you know, in order to get in the way of her radical abundance and fearless generosity. Why? Why, we don't know, but anyway. So just watching as these agencies are moving into partnership with indigenous peoples, that in itself I don't even know what the result's going to be. But for me, that consciousness shift is gigantic. I'm always tracking those and I'm like we just changed the fabric of reality by that Exactly.
Speaker 2:Every single time, those unlikely alliances, collaborations, cooperations happen. I'm like all about it and, um, I do want to get back to this, the original story. I gotta tell you one other amazing collaboration that's going on, um, which is that, uh, I've been working well, I. I was invited in by some young women who had been wanting to explore successful communal living situations. Now, there's been a lot that have been attempted. Yes, not so many situations. A lot have been broken down Totally. Humans are terrible. No, thank you. But so one of the places they went to explore was with the Catholic nuns. Beautiful, the Catholic nuns have been living in some— A long time, totally, a long time, totally A long time. Right, they got some kind of something system going there and then so they started this organization called Nuns and Nuns, which was N-U-N-S and N-O-N-E-S. Okay, so these young people were non-denominational.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's the nuns, Virtually rancid, but no particular tradition. So, anyway, all of that relationship that started, I don't know, probably 10 years ago or more. Just recently I was at my third year of meeting with. Now we're up to 19 different communities of sisters, of nuns, all over the United States, and we're talking to them about two really outrageous things. Outrage, the United States. And we're talking to them about two really outrageous things, outrageous proposals from Spirit. We're talking about having them return land to indigenous peoples and Black farmers. The Catholic Church is the largest landholder in the world and these sisters get to choose, they have autonomy about what happens with their land. They don't have to go through the Vatican. Now, how that all works, I don't know. Wow. So I was like I was giving them this. Oh my.
Speaker 1:God, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I was like this is a big deal for anybody related to a religion, but even in general in the world, for women to be landholders, to get to choose as community what they're going to do like that's if you look at the whole line of history.
Speaker 2:That's unusual, friends, that is unusual. So, um, so they're getting fired up about that possibility and we're also talking to them. Uh, this is actually michelle shenandoah, who is a mo no, I think, attorney anyway from Six Nations Harunashone, and she was the one who brought the cradle board to the Pope at the Vatican and was asking so how do you intend to take care of the children after the damage that your institution has caused? Right, but anyway, so Michelle had been, you know, working also during Idle no More, which was a First Nations movement in Canada. To you know, we can't be idle anymore, we have to stand up, we have to challenge these tar sands operations, these pipelines and etc. So she wanted to create a counter movement for quote, non-indigenous people, and she's calling it complicit no more. And it's complicit no more with the doctors of discovery. Yes, how can we? How can we do that? Now, the doctrine of discovery. A quick rundown about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go go. This is all so good.
Speaker 2:The papal bulls and the doctrine of discovery. This has everything to do with the wealth status of this nation and the founding of this nation and extraction of everything out of this nation, of everything out of this nation. Um, so in the doctrine of discovery, uh, there are these papal bulls. Again, I'm a little fuzzy here about the exact structure of how that works, but what I know about what's in those, the uh, papal bulls was that they, they sent these out with the explorers. Although actually I just heard I was at dinner of this woman. I don't know how we end up at the dinner table together, but she was saying that those, those papal bulls, actually went out to the more to the eastern way, um, to address muslim nations.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that. Interesting. So this has been going on. Wow, this was pre-americas, right, yeah, but anyway. But then they turned, then they started sending this out with the explorers. Consider that land empty and void, terra nullis, and therefore it is free for the taking and all of its inhabitants can be taken into perpetual slavery. And so I say, and they say we have magical thinking. Yeah, exactly, I'm like that is some serious magical thinking.
Speaker 2:Some serious sorcery and I'm like what, and so anyway. So just so we're clear about the Doctrine of Discovery. So to have these Catholic nuns be considering, in what way can we participate in declaring ourselves complicit? No more with the Doctrine of Discovery. Was cited in land use case for a tribe in New York Ruth Bader Ginsburg 2005. Wow, naming this as a legal basis for not giving the land back, Bullshit.
Speaker 1:Wow. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, yeah Ruth.
Speaker 2:Bader Ginsburg. Yeah, ruth Bader Ginsburg, that's how I mean. That was a wise, amazing woman, totally, but that's how ingrained it is into the legal system of land holding right in the nation state. And the other thing I find fascinating about that is was this nation state founded by Catholics? No, it was founded by Protestants. Was this nation state founded by Catholics? No, it was founded by Protestants. Do Protestants borrow from Catholics generally? No, they don't. They don't like each other. It seems very convenient. So just for this moment, we'll.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just a piece of paper with words on it. Talk about magic. So I was actually in those Mother house. It was the mother house conversations. I think that you held that series. Yeah, I was in that and I I came on the zoom and I saw this sea of, like, gray haired, white women and I was like I just burst into tears because I was like, wow, the like, this audience, the potency and the power and tapping into the real root of their love. You know cause? These are women that have devoted their lives, the potency and the power and tapping into the real root of their love. You know, because these are women that have devoted their lives to spirit, you know. So there's a taproot there that's shared and it's just like bridging the language and sharing the history, and I could see them as they digested what you were sharing of the truth, of these legacies, and just the desire to emerge and to bring something different forth was like so powerful.
Speaker 2:So just to name so Nuns, and Nuns became Land Justice Futures, so you can look at their organization, landjusticefuturesorg, and they have one tab that says it's called Motherhouse.
Speaker 2:In Motherhouse there's this six-session course, led, I think, all by women right, yeah it was all women, yes, and in a way that you may have never heard before, even if you've studied the subject, going through the Doctrine of Discovery. And we did have almost 700 people sign up for that. It was primarily thinking the nuns would come, but man, all kinds of people, indigenous people, very interested in this, but yeah, it was really something to see, all the white haired little. Yeah, it was so powerful and also one of my favorite moments was so we have the bear clan mother. Maybe I'll show it yeah.
Speaker 2:This is a new gift. You can see my new, my little, my bear buddy over there.
Speaker 1:Is he my name?
Speaker 2:yet no.
Speaker 1:No yeah.
Speaker 2:No, he's been, I think he's he. He's been in the living room since he came. I just moved in here right before this call, so he's a new partner in these conversations, but anyway. So, speaking of your Bear Clan mother, a Mohawk nation, you know saying, you know, mother law has to be reinstated. She's like you know. So the Constitution of the United States was borrowed from the Iroquois Confederacy. So we say, but they left out the most essential part, which is they left out all the women. Say but they left out the most essential part, which is they left out all the women, and they left out the part of where the matriarchs have the final say and the matriarchs choose the leadership. That's what made that system work. Yeah, so when you translate it and be like, yeah, that doesn't seem we'll take that part out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of like how the bible was rewritten, you know it's like just group of men conveniently writing these very like love-filled matriarchal texts, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So then we end up. Well, you see where we end up. So, anyways, where was I going with all that? Well, anyway, let's go back to your original question. Before all this sluttery business came in, it was such a beautiful dream we were in.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. I love the way your thinking goes like that, it's just it's because you're following the thread and spirit is leading and it's like the hoop is spinning and we're going in the direction that the words want to take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you're going to call them in and tell them you make a space, well, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're going to call them in and tell them you make a space.
Speaker 2:Well, we're going to come in. So I'm like, okay, I'm trying to get it out, I don't know what's going to happen. The original story about the holy, alchemical spirit of the money. So I actually I was going through a big deal with money in that moment and actually I spent a lot of time in this room. This whole room at that time was a 360-degree altar Wow, it had things from all over the world. It was a very powerful spot.
Speaker 2:But anyway, my second marriage was ending. Unfortunately, things were such that this man that I had been raising children with and doing ceremony with and everything things had come to the point where he was looking at me and saying all that weird stuff that you keep doing and trying to do and think about that magical way, the only reason it works is because I'm funding it. It's my back and my labor that's making that work. And as soon as I leave, you're going to find out that none of that stuff works. And you're going to find out that none of that stuff works and you're going to find out that you can't do it without me. And out the door he went. It was hardcore. We're friends now, but it took some time.
Speaker 1:It's like a metaphorical message from the masculine, because I feel like that's at the meta level what we're experiencing. That is at the meta level.
Speaker 2:What we're experiencing so is at the mental level. What we're experiencing so, so you know. Actually I that was my second- marriage that ended.
Speaker 1:My record is 12 years. Good job.
Speaker 2:It's a long time to say what the guy was going to say, so there you go, and actually the first guy said something similar on the way out the door, and and so the first I say the first time I believed it. The second time I was like wait a second, I've heard this before. Yeah, because I'd been experimenting. I'd been experimenting and that's what he was talking about with this whole idea of do what you love and the money will follow is what started my experiment and I found out.
Speaker 1:But the hard part was figuring out what I loved, oh my. God, isn't it wild when you finally let yourself imagine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. It was like you have to do this and these are your only options, so I couldn't even think about what I love, so that took some time, and the only things I could think of was I love to make cookies, oh yes, and I love to give presents.
Speaker 1:Those were the things I could cook. I'll take your cookies as a present anytime.
Speaker 2:I created Pat-A-Cakes bootleg bakery.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:And I was baking out of the house, thus the bootleg Love it, and I sold out every day and I made some good money on that and I could stay home with my little son and we'd take him out in his little stroller and everybody, son, and we'd take him out in his little stroller and and everybody loved to see us coming because we were bringing goodies, you know. And then, um, so that was very successful.
Speaker 2:And then I also started uh, bodacious balloons, full service balloon catering. I love it catering, and everybody loved that too. So that got so big that my living room was constantly filled with helium balloons. It was driving my husband crazy and I was like you're gonna have have to get a storefront at this point and I said if I get a storefront it's not going to be any fun anymore.
Speaker 2:So I let it go. But I proved the point Everything flourished, that I love to do, so anyways, these were the kinds of experiments that I was in, but anyway. So when this marriage was ending, I went into shock, Like I really went into shock. Like I'd be standing in my pajamas in the middle of the living room at noon and then I'd realize it's like 6 o'clock and I'm still standing there, Like I really went into shock. And so all I could do was spend a lot of time at my altar.
Speaker 2:And I was sitting there, I was praying, I was singing and my bills were piling up and I was paying my mortgage with my credit card. And Spirit just kept telling me hey, it's okay, this time that you spend getting quiet and listening is going to become so valuable you're not even going to believe it. Just take the time you need and just keep sitting at the altar. And I was like I don't know if you know how our world works, Spirit, You're kind of in some lofty place there or I don't know up in the clouds or what, but it's a really bad thing when you're paying your mortgage with your credit card. Maybe you don't understand credit scores, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And Spirit's like irrelevant yeah.
Speaker 2:Irrelevant, you hear, irrelevant at all at that point, but anyway. So I just sat at the altar for two years and that's when this happened. So sometimes I would go down into the earth to pray, and this time I asked Mother Earth if I could do that and she allowed me to go down. So I went down into this place and there were these cave and I was approaching this cave and there was all these women.
Speaker 2:If you can quite make this out, you kind of see the white's kind of hard here, yeah, you just another girl body and there's her face and her hair. So there was like all these women that looked something like this and they were on a line facing forward and they kind of did the synchronized swimming thing where the first one moved out of the way and then the next one and the next one and the next one, and they were parting on this path for me to walk down. So I walked down in between all these women and at the end of it there was this face that was lit up on the ground. It was so funny. When you asked me that question, I looked up and I was like something like that Wow, yeah, it's from the Taino relatives in Borican in Puerto Rico, beautiful.
Speaker 2:They just gifted me this. It's funny, I hadn't thought about that before, but anyway. So this face was on the ground and I was told it was Mother Sun, and in my cosmology the sun was always masculine, father Sun. So here's Mother Sun on the earth and she's talking to me. She's saying to me you know, there's a very, very powerful ally around and that's very interested in you and really wants to be your ally, but she can't. And I was like why? Like who is this? And like, yeah, you would not believe how powerful this one is, so powerful and man, she, she, she really thinks what you're doing is pretty exciting and but, and she'd love to be an ally, but she can't. And I just was like what? So finally I said, well, who is this? And finally this face says it's the holy alchemical spirit of the money. So it was that face that that gave me oh, wow. And that's when I, and that's when that whole, it was like through my whole body, like alchemical chemical. What are we talking about here?
Speaker 2:and holy to think yeah, another, another unlikely word to couple with that. And so, um, I said, wow, okay. And um, I said, well, why, why can't? Why can't she be my ally? And this, well, first, this face was telling me. So one thing to know about her is, even though she's human, created and she was originally used as kind of like a placeholder for things, but she's grown into something else, and because the human beings have put such like laser focus on her, if you think about it, how many human beings around the world are have got?
Speaker 1:this life, whole life formed around, and are like what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2:we're gonna do, um, because of that we've we've put so much, directed, so much like laser energy to her that that she come to life, that she's a spirit a sovereign spirit, I guess you could say and she is claiming her volition for herself. Now she's not going to just follow what we say anymore, and she has decided that she is going to serve that which serves life, light and love from here on out. And so this face was telling me so you're going to begin to see things fall as she withdraws from these other things. And so I said well, what can I do to make her be an ally? Why won't she be my ally? And this face said because you treat her like a slave and a whore. So I had to think about that, yeah, and and so this mother son was saying yeah, she's got dignity, she's got pride, she's not going to go for that, but she would like to. I said, well, what can I do to heal this? And so I was asked to make an.
Speaker 2:you're doing it again, you're treating her she does not belong in the sacred for you. And I was like, okay, so I made this altar, which I still have it's not in this room, it's in the room where I sleep and, um, I made, I had this little cornucopia basket. Um, I have actually a little bit of gold there. I have a little bundle of beautiful goodies for her. I have buffalo, because for us, buffalo also represent everything that's needed for food, clothing and shelter. And so then I started this practice of every time, well, one keeping water and little food offerings for her there. And then I also, anytime I got money, I would put it on that altar, even if only for, you know, 15 minutes. Maybe I needed that money. Okay, now I'm going to use it, but I would just acknowledge that you know, we were in this partnership, and so one time I was sitting at the altar towards the end of the two years actually and she came and she said I am only going to serve that which serves life, light and love, and I witnessed that. That's what you're aligned with and that's what you want to do too, and I just want to let you know. I trust you completely. You want to do too, and I, I just want to let you know. I trust you completely. And so, uh, that was a big shift for me. Yeah, that's when you know, I also had to learn.
Speaker 2:I got right around that time I got invited to go to Peru. I was still feeling pretty pretty precarious financially, um and uh, but I got invited to go to Peru. I had managed to save a little money. So the other weird thing that was happening is these invitations would come in my email and I had no idea how these people even knew about me, because I was just like in my pajamas and shocked for like two years. And also they'd be like please come to mexico city for this indigenous people's gathering.
Speaker 2:I'm like what? So I got invited to go to Peru and I said yes, and then we were getting closer to the time and I said so, do you guys? You know, are you guys going to take care of my flight arrangements, or should I do that and then you'll reimburse me, or what's happening? And they were like oh no, we're not going to pay for your flight. We just invited you to come, and so to come. And so I had this practice and I still do of asking spirit is this a yes or a no, and so I had asked and it was a yes, and so I was like oh, is this supposed to work? Yeah, I was like how's this supposed to work? I said so, spirit. I think there's been some kind of misunderstanding what's happening.
Speaker 2:But they don't understand that you know they're supposed to pay for my plane ticket. Spirit says uh, did I not put two thousand,000 in your bank account? Because I could have swore I put $2,000 in your bank account.
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:Is that not there? And I was like, yeah, but that's my money. And Spirit's like, oh, oh, that's your money, oh, oh, oh. And I was like, okay, maybe it's not my money. I mean, I had really worked to scrape together this little tiny buffer. I had my children, because I had children, you know teenagers and stuff and um, so, anyway, that was so. That was the first time I learned.
Speaker 2:You know you, you go work. Your work is unreal, is not connected to making money. That money is spirits. Spirits can decide about that. Yeah, and there are times when I still pay to work. I mean, it's not even kind of in the equation sometimes. It's just I'm following that spirit trail. I'm following that spirit trail and everything that is needed comes, and it's not only just from my life and I don't know nuts and bolts. But now here come these outrageous proposals from Spirit where I'm just like a million dollars, yeah, oh, I'm like okay, okay, I just had to do my thing for just a second there. But the most recent outrageous proposal that came, I didn't even go there. I just was like okay we're doing this.
Speaker 1:Was that for the land that you're stewarding? Yeah, yeah, can you share a little bit about that project?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I.
Speaker 1:And also the Joy House Schoolfront Learning I'd love to hear about that, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've talked about that a lot lately.
Speaker 2:So there is a movement. For those who are unaware, that, people often call Land Back and it's talking about land being returned back to the stewardship of Indigenous peoples, and so these are usually within our traditional territories before the Great Interruption, as I call it Like that, or our sacred sites or such you know, and so it's coming in all different ways, different kinds of collaborations. Even the nuns Totally the nuns have given some land back, but also there's been some collaborations where they still hold land. Now I just want to, you know, speaking to the dilemma for the nuns they're up against, because the median age of nuns in the United States is 84.
Speaker 1:Wow, so not a lot of young people.
Speaker 2:No, they're on their way out, and so their concern is elder care, and the one asset they have to pay for their elder care is the land that they hold. So that's a very tender and primal place, and yet they're still trying to figure out how can we do this, which I think is really amazing. And I also think it's really amazing that the Vatican is not paying for their elder care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely With how much money they have. Yeah. Maybe, we can change that. We'll talk about that later, yeah.
Speaker 2:The way their system is set up. It's different, and also it could invite some authoritarian stuff into lives that they would rather not have. So fair enough, because I know I don't want that authority in my life. True, so I get it, but anyway, so where was I? So yeah, it's happening in different ways. There's even like state lands being returned or joint use. This is happening, but one of the ways it's also happening is through purchase, and so in our case, in Dine Nation, I'm taking on the stewardship of land. There's really no language for it. I don't even like that term. Yeah, we're working on it. We're like what are we It'd?
Speaker 1:be great to reinvent that language. You should use the narrative work around that, because it's not real estate, it's not, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway. So, but whatever we want to call that, I'm taking it on the stewardship of this land at one of our primary four of the four sacred mountains it's the first one that's named in all of our ceremonies, and so this gives us ceremonial access to that place. But previous to this purchase well, let me stay with the purchase here for a minute. So the way that that came about, so, first of all, that outrageous proposal was a pretty big leap from the last outrageous proposal that had been introduced to me. Spirit's, like you're good, let's go for a big one.
Speaker 1:You got this.
Speaker 2:You know I mean the amount of land feels giant. For me it's like 141 acres With a sacred mountain. Yeah, it's right at the base of the mountain Right at the base of the mountain. Yeah, so I mean it's very it's a very powerful place too.
Speaker 2:So people are like are you living there yet? And I'm like are you kidding? No, I live an hour and a half North, so it's not that far to drive by New Mexico standards. Yeah, but I'm working, I'm easing into it because, also because of my role, I think it probably also feels even more like bearing down on me a little bit. So I just go and visit still, and I have somebody who's caretaking there, but also okay.
Speaker 2:So the way this came about was I was a part of this community. That was the reason for us being together was to reimagine money and protect the sacred. And so there were some folks in there when I said, you know, this is a possibility, and you know I waited, I couldn't get my head around it. I was like you know the amount of land, the amount of money. I was just like what? And so finally, the owners we'd been talking about it for like two years and the owners finally said, look, we're going to have to bust a move now. So if you're going to do it, we'd like to see a real estate contract by the end of the year. And I was like, ooh, so that was like in September, right. And so then I waited all the way until December and I had to have this conversation with myself and I was like so you're? You've heard that this is available. You've asked spirit, do I have a role in this? And it kind of sounded like there was, yeah, you have a role in this, um, and you're just going to blow it off, like that's what's happening here. And I was like, since when do you just like, blow it off, but that's how like big it felt, you know, and I was like, well, in general I don't ever blow that off, so I guess I gotta do something.
Speaker 2:So I put the word out and all the funds came in in three weeks. They're just like whoa, and the primary contributors were um people who said we know that our wealth, our family's wealth, came from oil, timber and land theft Wow. And so they had already been doing a lot of spiritual and ceremonial work because their family was also involved with plantations in the South, in the South, and so they'd actually been working with Louisa Tesh around talking to their ancestors and doing some work there. So I don't know what that work is, but I sure am curious. Yeah, sounds powerful, but all went on there because I know Thinking about chemical right.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah. So anyway, after they'd been doing that work when this came up, they said we would like to participate in helping this happen. So just to name, here's that radical relationship.
Speaker 2:So when that money finally dropped to make the purchase, it blew me out for a good week Psychically, you mean just sort of like your, your emotional body yeah, like in every which way, um, I kind of um because it was it was over a million dollars, which is I'm sorry spirit that seems like a lot of money to me. You're not relevant I have never worked on that scale or anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if I stretched you, I can imagine it's like yeah, oh, like this, like not done stretching me.
Speaker 2:Growing pains I did not know this is not the part they talk about with Land Back, but anyway, and actually the scale of a million dollars isn't even really that big a scale anymore Billionaires we got running around now, so that's interesting, but anyway I'm working up to that. I actually have been telling Spirit I would very much like to distribute $1 billion.
Speaker 2:So, I mentioned that recently to Spirit for over a year. May it be so. So we'll see what happens there, but I've not decided that that's what I need to do just yet, apparently.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure that's what I need to do just yet apparently, how many people are you sure?
Speaker 2:So this land? So for me, just a name. So the way I picture it is, I almost feel like there's this like, like there's some kind of movie sometimes where the whole reality just goes whoa. That's what I feel like has been happening since that. That was the end of 2022 when we did the purchase or we started. No, we made the purchase, then Took a full year, and part of the reason I took a full year it was because I said to all the people involved I had this dream team of, like ex-skullman sacks folks, um cpas, uh, people who'd already been um helping black farmers acquire land, um, yeah, and it was great. And every now and then when we'd get all balled up about it. Because, again the question I say the legal systems, the financial systems, the real estate systems, they're not designed for this level of cooperation and collaboration. They're designed for hoarding and amassing, and protecting and hoarding and amassing some more right, and so this whole cooperation, collaboration thing is kind of like—.
Speaker 2:Like illegible to the system it is yeah, and so every now and then one of the members of my team she was so great she would say whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's just stop, pat. Just tell us what is the mountain saying, that it wants, what? Just tell us that part and we'll we'll mess with all this other stuff. But that's the primary through path and we'd all be like, right, right, right, right, right. So that's partly why it took a year.
Speaker 2:Um, because, yeah, we were, and I said I want to do it in a way that's never been done before, because we have to really push on these systems now. Like we have the whole mountain behind us, like this is our chance to really lean hard on these systems. So we had to write letters to the IRS for things we were doing and I don't know all kinds of stuff and the IRS, you know, behaved like the IRS. But I just still felt like it was like sending that hobbit into the gates of Mordor and energetic ripple. Somebody had to read that letter in there and we went into some detail about things that you don't normally talk to the IRS about. So, every way we could, we did that and so, yeah, it all came about, and so actually, that part.
Speaker 2:I did not say irrelevant, but more recently my neighbor has a smaller amount of acreage I mean, by standards I had before this, it still would have been pretty big, it's like 10 acres but he holds the senior water rights and if we were to make this purchase then we would. And so here again, it's that mentality and that thinking that I'm a little uncomfortable with, and yet I feel like, strategically, do you really want to leave that door open for somebody else to move in and gain those water rights and then be able to dictate to you and your whole place what's going to happen?
Speaker 1:um, I was like I don't think so.
Speaker 2:So it's tricky, it's tricky, but um, but anyway. But when that came up and the guy told me what he wanted for his land, um, that's, that was the first time I didn't tell spirit, that sounds like a lot of money. I was like, let's do this back to you. And then I told spirit, all right, how do you want to do this? And so, uh, it's happening, it's already happening.
Speaker 1:So that was happening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's happening.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 2:Um, so, yeah, so now we're moving on to building bunk and bath house out there for both ceremonial use. Oh, but now we get to Joy House, the school for unlearned yes. Yeah, so 10 years before all of this, as I was sitting at my altar, actually, I had a very lovely, beautiful tarotist. People sometimes are surprised that I have a tarotist, but I did then, I don't. She passed recently. She was fabulous. She also gave me homework. How do you like a tarotist that gives you homework?
Speaker 2:I love then I don't. She passed recently. She was fabulous. She also gave me homework. How do you like a tarotist that gives you homework? I love it. And so one time she said so I want you to go to some beautiful place in nature that you really love, and I want you to get quiet. And then I want you to go into your heart. And she said and for you, I want you to open the secret back door of your heart and just ask what is it that you really want? And then, whatever it says, you say yes. And so I've only done it twice, because it's very, very powerful. It'll rearrange your life if you're not in complete, honest, total alignment with your own heart, which most of us don't. It's hard to maintain modern world paradigm and that, so I should do it again, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a beautiful invitation actually, everything that came out of my heart birds came out of my heart. I said yes, I'm not sure who you are or what you mean, but I say yes, I'd never been to India. My heart said I want to been to India. My heart said I want to go to India. I said yes, within six months I had an invitation to go to India for an indigenous peoples conference, anyway all these things. But one of the things that came out was my heart said I want Joy House. And I said okay, yes, what are you? I don't know what that is. And then later that one kind of came in pieces and so every time I and other meditation, joy house. It became, well, actually it's joy house, the school for unlearning, it's a school. And I was like, oh, and everybody always likes that name because I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's spirit language every time I say it or who it's with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people, and they're just something rings through their whole body, right, and I'm like that would be spirit, um, and so then I had to learn that you know it's about unlearning. So, as I was considering, um, making this non-profit for it, you have to name your charitable purpose, right, and the charitable purpose that I came up with was unlearning the death way and relearning the life way. Wow, yeah, I don't know, but we're still wondering about structures and everything. But anyway, but that's the gist of it right, to unlearn modern world paradigm and relearn thriving life paradigm. Thriving life paradigm First, you got to know who you are, where you are, how it is, and so basically it's. Also, I knew it was a place where the kinds of teachings that I give, instead of me running around the world, which I've been doing for 15 years people come to me. Yeah, that sounds lovely.
Speaker 1:You can relax and rest a little more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also knew that food was our primary, medicine was also a big part of it, so I needed a little bit of a land base. Anyway, there's other things that were involved, but, um, and it was open for everybody, so I knew that, like some people would come, like there might be like sort of intensive situations where like three, two or three or four people might come and live for a year or two and then other people might come for like three months and then, you know, I kept seeing bus loads of kids coming through for any a couple nights and um, you know, like that. And but now it has grown into a place where, yes, so the, so the mountain, all for the 10 years. I was wondering, well, where is this going to be? Because my place in taos is pretty well, this came before the land.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is wow.
Speaker 2:Okay cool, I didn't realize then I realized when the land started coming, I was like, oh yeah, this is where this is, so this is a joint use area. Those are actually hard words because, um, our people have been subjected to an attempted forced relocation process. Um, that, that has to do with the Hopi nations, and that's what giant use refers to.
Speaker 2:So, sometimes it'll only be Dene people. So you got to understand. This place is also pretty far from our reservation as we say so, like five or six hour drive, gotcha, and I don't see it as being like a place where everybody's going to. We're going to grow this big community there Not yet, anyway I think we need to. So for now it's a pilgrimage site. We already have had our first hostings and but also I think it's going to host Joy House, the School for Unlearning, and now I think Joy House actually has multiple campuses going all the way up from the south on the Rio Grande, including my son's farm here in Taos, which is just extraordinary.
Speaker 2:When I've hosted groups in New Mexico, that I've always done anyway, was to have them walk this very, very unique cooperation. I don't know any other situation of cooperation and collaboration across an entire bioregion like we have here in northern New Mexicoxico, which is working with these acequias, these irrigation ditches, these waters that come out of the mountains. So that's how water works everywhere it comes out of the mountains, in the streams, but here it's channeled into these ditches, acequias, and they have names, they're associated with families. Wow, matter of family, of family honor and community honor to keep your part of the ditch clear and clean so the water can go through. You have to cooperate on how long you get the water, what days.
Speaker 1:Omnibeneficence, right there. Omnibeneficence, you can operating in omnibeneficence.
Speaker 2:And it's been going on for hundreds of years, wow. So I've always liked to show people that when they come out here, yeah, because they want to get in their body this is possible. So I always pick on Boulder. For some reason I always say so. Even in Boulder, colorado, with those mountains right there, you could have this. Yeah, you would have to rearrange your thinking about land, neighbors, people, yes, profit, mm-hmm. The profit of cooperation, and collaboration relationally, and also what you're able to accomplish whether you have money or not, is gigantic.
Speaker 2:I mean Taos County and Taos. So New Mexico is, like always, vying for the poorest state in the nation, with Mississippi or something I didn't realize that. And then Taos County is one of the poorest counties in the state. Wow, but I'll tell you what. What do we got? We got a Sakeas man, exactly it's like.
Speaker 1:how is that wealth being measured by the?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, I mean, that's what made me fall in love here. I've been here for 38 years, wow. So, anyway, my son is like super involved in firing up ditches that haven't been used for a while, because there's a lot of gentrification going on here everywhere. People are fleeing all these places, and I guess people are fleeing all these places and I guess, anyway, I won't go into that. But yeah, um, but he's trying to catch them as they come in because they don't understand what they have when they buy land with water rights. They might not really understand this beautiful, amazing history. Totally, he's really into helping bringing people into that way and helping them get their fields ready and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, all that is to say that his place is another campus of Joy House, the school for learning, as I'm concerned. So it's multiple campuses, and I had this one man ask me when I was saying this, talking about Joy House, and he said well, who is this for what age group? And I said I think it's for all age groups. He's like oh no, now look, I was getting mansplained to begin. Um, you're gonna have to focus on whether you want to work with little kids or teenagers, or I'm like no, no, and not only that, it's not even in one place, uh-huh, and yet it just, it's so solid in my body I'm like yeah well, and that's the thing is like.
Speaker 1:You'll figure out the details as you go. Cause spirit is the way yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know, during the pandemic my one sister was saying oh my God, pat, if you had that thing, if you had that school up and running right now, we'd all be sending our kids to you Totally.
Speaker 1:They like multi-generational learning is. And multi-dimensional and multi-dimensional is like the way I mean that's.
Speaker 2:Let's bring them into spirit logic right away. Totally Bunch of trouble.
Speaker 1:Let the little ones learn from the elder ones and the middle ones be in that too. It's like we're in this. Yeah, the unlearning is such an invitation. Yeah, so I know we're kind of at time, and I'd love to ask for just one more story before we close, if you have a moment for it. When we were together, you had Mr B the buffalo skin and you shared a story of the buffalo that I have since shared a few times, because it moved me so much in terms of how buffalo deal with major storms and just thinking about the storms of our times and where we are as a planet. The story of the buffalo, as you shared it to me, really has helped me to imagine us moving through the chaos of the moment we find ourselves in in a different way, in solidarity, from their teaching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'll also say that. So oftentimes you hear about indigenous people being very concerned with eagle and buffalo, so I don't know if you can quite see them.
Speaker 1:That's nice.
Speaker 2:So for me, eagle is the vertical and we say eagle brings our prayers and such our cries for help and for vision to spirit. But for me the buffalo is like, is the embodiment, being the embodiment of spirit, like spirit. But you know well, you know, buffalo Solid, yeah, solid, and being really, really embodied in that way. But it's actually my Muskogee relatives were telling me this story about how their elders say that you know, when the storm comes and the blizzards come because they're always out there standing in those big prairies that they turn and they face the storm, and they face the storm together and they hold each other up through that.
Speaker 2:And I also think about when, when, a, when, a, when a cow, when a mother buffalo is gonna calve, she departs from the herd and and two other female buffaloes will accompany her, the midwives right, and they go wow, and and she burrs and then they walk her back into the herd, sometimes having to hold her up right, but they walk her back in. So that's, that's, that's the nature of the way the buffalo um teach us so. And one last thing the buffalo said to me when we were doing ceremonies in europe. Actually, the buffalo said if you will keep, um, if you will keep, you know, fearless generosity, if you keep your fearless generosity and a soft heart, and you will live. So you must keep your fearless generosity and your soft heart, and that's the promise of how we continue and go forward together.
Speaker 1:So there you go, mahalo, pat, beautiful words to end on. So grateful to you, the wisdoms you carry and all that you do on this earth, forever in debt and grateful to be in your sphere. Mahalo, thank you so much for being with us. It is a gift to be able to share all of this with you and be building the beloved futures together. If you'd like to learn more about what I do or work with me, my website is ourbelovedfuturescom, and if you have ideas on really amazing people we should have on the podcast, let me know. I'm also found on Instagram at at Aubrey dot Morgan dot ye, and I look forward to hearing from you. Be well, be light, be love.